Friday, March 19, 2010

DEBATE AUDIO (THE THIRD DAY): Is Christianity for Wimps?

Is Christianity for Wimps? 9 of 12: Spencer on moderation

Is Christianity for Wimps 10 of 12: Spencer and Rittelmeyer on…chastity

Is Christianity for Wimps 11 of 12: Audience member on forgiveness

Is Christianity for Wimps? 12 of 12: Seavey closing remarks

And as a bonus religious conflict item, see this piece (which briefly mentions the debate heard above) on Richard Spencer’s new site,, about his fight, as neo-paganism sympathizer, with a quasi-Satanist associate of David Frum, for those keeping careful track of all this and making a diagram. Coming up in the next couple days on non-monetary incentives and why Lady Gaga is boring. ALSO: If YOU want to do a Debate at Lolita Bar on a popular, divisive topic, e-mail me at the address found on my About/CONTACT page, assuming you can be in Manhattan, at your own expense, the first Wednesday night of the month.


Dustin Philipson said...


Hello. I am an admirer of this little blog niche you have carved out for your self. I my self am also a “conservative punk”; that is I think we are on the same page in our conclusions. The true punk spirit, that has manifested itself through such pioneering personalities John Rotten, Joey Ramone, Mark Mothersbaugh, David Byrne etc., is actually one and the same as the driving force of true conservative idealism (i.e. capitalism, innovation, designing/patenting/producing a unique product that sets one apart from the rest; shaking one’s fist at a governing elite that would try to make us all wear the same uniform and scoff at one’s attempt to set oneself selves apart from the heard etc.). I really admire the wit and genius you use to put this idea forth in your writings. I wish I had you with me when I am at the bar with all my lefty friends and they start spouting off about the evils of capitalism and such. I have to stand up and wave my conservative/libertarian flag and defend my case. It would be cool to have a smart dude like yourself there to back me up and blow their shallow defense of leftist lunacy.

All that said, I am also a Christian. Yep. Of the evangelical variety. And quite frankly I feel like the Faith did not get quite a fair representation in the this debate. Granted Miss Rittelmeyer did a good job on her side of the debate, but I feel she really missed the boat when asked if there are any non-wimpy Christians that non-believers could look up to.

Well I think the the figure who makes a great non-wimp case is the religion’s founder, Jesus. Now I know that the church its self has done a lot to paint Jesus as “a Richard Simmons, hippie, queer Christ… a neutered and limp-wristed popular Sky Fairy of pop culture that . . . would never talk about sin or send anyone to hell.” (quote from “cussing” punk rock Pastor Mark Driscoll But Jesus was any thing but. He was a carpenter’s son who most likely followed his dad in the trade. He made a weapon and flipped over tables when he got angry. He told people straight up that if they didn’t repent and turn from their sins they would perish in hell. In the book of Revelations he shows up on a horse, with a sword in his hand, and his robe dipped in blood, to wage war on Satan and his minions. And if nothing else, his sayings and teachings went on to form one of the largest world religions. Now that is influence and power! This Jewish carpenter with calluses on his hands and fire and brim stone teachings on his tongue went on to impact the western world in a huge way! And its ignorant that Mr. Spencer, along with countless liberal media outlets, would at all try to down play this man’s/God’s positive influence on the western culture Mr. Spencer loves so much (here is a great blog post defending my case here:

Also here is a list of Christian punks (or conservative punks who at least sympathize/acknowledge the Judeo-Christian ethic’s positive influence) These are dudes I look up to:

*Joe Escalante: Founder of the influential So Cal Punk band The Vandals. He is an outspoken conservative and Catholic. His Catholic blog ‘Good Religion’ can be found here;

*Michale Graves: I believe he has been part of on of your past debates Mr. Seavey. Well, along with being a conservative punk, he is also a Catholic.

*Alice Cooper: Ok more glam then punk, but the man’s influence on freaky music culture can’t be denied. He is an outspoken Christian.

*Greg Gutfeld: The crazy and hilarious host for the Fox News Channel’s ‘Red Eye’. He is a punk rocker at heart who..CONT..

Dustin Philipson said...

..CONT.. has had many punk guests on his show (John Rotten, Joe Escalante etc.) He also has an occasional segment, ‘Ask Fr. Jonathan Morris’, where he waxes theologically with the man of the cloth.

*Bono: This one might get me shot, but Bono and his band, in my opinion, have made a huge undeniable impact on punk/new wave/rock. And it is Bono’s Christian faith that has propelled him past rock star status and toward humanitarian (in which he has used capitalism as a positive tool

Well there is much more to write but I’ll stop now.


Todd Seavey said...

I think Helen would wholeheartedly agree with you and perhaps even do some table-flipping herself — as well as listening to all that music.

Graves was indeed in our debate immediately prior to the Christianity one, and if you look at the Debates page on this blog, you’ll find your way to audio of that one as well.

I had the pleasure of meeting Gutfeld at the bar Langan’s next door to the Fox/New York Post building, through our mutual friend Kyle Smith, and he was very friendly for such an opinionated and now famous pundit/comic. From some of the stories he tells, I’d've pegged him as a punk but not necessarily a Christian — however, I’m learning that Christians are, as you suggest, not necessarily a bunch of milquetoasts. Mistaken, in my opinion, but not necessarily wimps.

Joe Carter said...

Thanks for posting the debate. It’s funny that neo-pagans like Spencer praise martial virtues yet would never, ever think of actually joining the military.

In all my years in the Marines I met plenty of evangelicals, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, etc., but not a single neo-pagan. That is a species that you find only in cities where young men can spend their post-adolescent years writing about how they are all Nietzschian Übermensch. (I guess It’s easier to be a Manly Pagan in a D.C. bar than it is in a combat zone.)