tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-610803938756668468.post3077977558694684014..comments2024-03-28T07:08:58.221-04:00Comments on Todd Seavey: A Review of the Candidates, from Paul to ClintonTodd Seaveyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08589187886030112999noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-610803938756668468.post-15887290456898352002007-12-23T10:50:00.000-05:002007-12-23T10:50:00.000-05:00As Paul has explained, Black simply said he was a ...As Paul has explained, Black simply said he was a fan — and he doesn’t obviously _look_ like he must be a Nazi — and briefly posed (with his son) next to Paul, who has also said he’s delighted Black will have $500 less to promote white supremacy due to his donation, which you know won’t change Ron Paul’s philosophy a bit. Likewise, Greenpeace is more than welcome to give me a $500 contribution and see if it makes me anti-biotech. <br><br>But if we’re sinking to this level of guilt-by-association, Eric, surely photos of _you_ with Ron Paul exist from your days on his staff, so I take it we can start calling you a Nazi now, too, right? Maybe Paul, a la Sideshow Bob, should try to discredit you in your Texas race to unseat him for the House by releasing photos of you consorting with him (“Troublingly, Eric Dondero has worked for Ron Paul, known associate of white supremacists — vote Ron Paul for Congress”). <br><br>As for me, I’ll vote for Ron Paul on Feb. 5, a.k.a. Super Duper Tuesday, after which I imagine the GOP field will have been winnowed somewhat.Todd Seaveyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08589187886030112999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-610803938756668468.post-47527940146804232532007-12-23T05:31:00.000-05:002007-12-23T05:31:00.000-05:00You should have stayed enthusiastic about Jesse Ve...You should have stayed enthusiastic about Jesse Ventura. He would have made a 10 times better representative of our libertarian movement in this Presidential race than the loopey Ron Paul. <br><br>Now we find out that Paul had two photos taken of him with Nazi Storm Trooper Front leader Don Black in South Florida back in September. Not something that’s going to be helpful to our efforts in convinceing mainstream Americans that libertarians aren’t fringe.<br><br>Bring back Ventura!!Eric Donderohttp://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-610803938756668468.post-50915427355622537962007-12-21T19:23:00.000-05:002007-12-21T19:23:00.000-05:00Still seems like “Christianity _plus_” to me, thou...Still seems like “Christianity _plus_” to me, though, rather than “non-Christianity.” Ditto the Christian Science church, which (I think) simply adds their Mary Baker Eddy-influenced unique beliefs about prayer and faith altering physical reality to the more traditional Christian beliefs. Are they (despite the name) also out of the fold?Todd Seaveyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08589187886030112999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-610803938756668468.post-33381924667675169762007-12-21T12:58:00.000-05:002007-12-21T12:58:00.000-05:00One reason–to Mormons, the Old and New Testaments ...One reason–to Mormons, the Old and New Testaments do not complete the authoritative, textual revelation of God’s communication with humans. The “revelation” of the golden plates discovered and translated by Joseph Smith as the Book of Mormon (with the assistance of the two decoder-stones Urim and Thummim) is, together with the Bible, the fulfillment of that message. <br><br>Although Catholics and Protestants generally disagree on the utility and legitimacy of consulting the texts known as Biblical Apocrypha, I think most C/P/O would argue (for lots of reasons) that this is a different issue than Smith’s positing the wholesale discovery of a new authoritative text mystically “translated” by him.Xinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-610803938756668468.post-88404253806168241322007-12-20T14:41:00.000-05:002007-12-20T14:41:00.000-05:00Sorry, Christine, I really meant to confess ignora...Sorry, Christine, I really meant to confess ignorance more than claim knowledge, but with the possible fate of the republic riding on it, can you please give us some sort of two-sentence reason that Mormons are disqualified from that broader Christian tradition? Why are they not merely heretical, say, rather than _non-Christian_? If they claim to be Christians and go on about Jesus granting them eternal life, you have to at least admit that makes them seem very, shall we say, _non-Zoroastrian_, for example. <br><br>(And who are you rooting for for president, if this Ron Paul thing doesn’t work out, by the way? You must find it very interesting that many GOP voters are flocking to Huckabee the minister while flagship conservative magazine _National Review_ has, by your standards, endorsed a non-Christian for president [perhaps a good precedent, regardless of whether he'd be a good president].)Todd Seaveyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08589187886030112999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-610803938756668468.post-9677673568199432402007-12-20T14:01:00.000-05:002007-12-20T14:01:00.000-05:00Are you seriously asking me to explain the theolog...Are you seriously asking me to explain the theological and historical differences between Mormons and Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox Xns? I’m happy to do so, but I just assumed you knew this already.<br><br>Acknowledging the radical diversity within Christianity is not, in fact, the same thing as believing that “the issue as to which tenets fundamentally ‘define’ Christianity might just be open.” The ecumenical movement in which the major branches all participate to varying degrees is premised upon the fact that despite differences — yes, potentially mutually heretical, but by definition still *inside*– all are united in historical continuity and a core of incarnational, redemptive, Trinitarian belief–and that the fount of this belief is the life, death, and resurrection of Christ *as recounted in the Gospels*. Again, this is where the Mormons take the bypass. <br><br>And those who think that debating — or caring about — the differences between Mormonism and Christianity is just as fatuous as debating the Green Lantern may then sit back and enjoy with detached bemusement the voting choices of American Evangelicals who are generally reluctant to shift their support to a candidate who, they are told, thinks that Jesus and Satan are brothers.<br><br>But those of us who live, say, in the Carolinas can’t approach the political choices of Evangelicals with such enlightened hilarity.Xinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-610803938756668468.post-65635741650988087832007-12-19T11:12:00.000-05:002007-12-19T11:12:00.000-05:00To many thoughtful people, Jews and Christians _ar...To many thoughtful people, Jews and Christians _are_ of the same religion with an arguably minor technical difference. Messianic Judaism accepts the divinity of Christ, for example. On the other hand, some Protestants and Catholics see each other as idolaters or heretics based on differences that to them are not minor or technical.<br><br>So the issue as to which tenets fundamentally “define” Christianity might just be open. But to those who think religion is myth, this debate sounds a little like this Onion piece Todd once sent me.<br><br><a href="http://www.theonion.com/content/node/25842" rel="nofollow">http://www.theonion.com/content/node/25842</a>Kolinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-610803938756668468.post-56400921843443655392007-12-19T10:12:00.000-05:002007-12-19T10:12:00.000-05:00OK, so from your many words I draw the lesson that...OK, so from your many words I draw the lesson that you think the answer to the question “Is Mormonism Christianity?” is…no. You didn’t really get as far as the “Because they believe…” part, though maybe your typing fingers got tired. But given that you know, better than I, how many branches — now thought heretical (by most or some) — Christianity has actually had over the centuries and around the world, with varying beliefs held strongly by their adherents and deemed apocryphal by others, would you care to explain which precise Mormon beliefs _cancel out_ their belief in the divinity of Christ, which I’d think would count for something, and cast them out of the fold? <br><br>And as a non-Christian yourself (last time you made a statement on such matters), don’t you think you could take a slightly looser view of “brand identity” here than the true believers? Obviously, there are Protestants who don’t think Catholics are real Christians and (at least in the past) many Catholics who regarded Protestants as heretics, but we tend today to view such exclusionists as boneheads, so why not take a similarly dim view of those who think Christianity ceases to be Christianity once a little thing like a UFO or a new angel is introduced? <br><br>I would have thought the faith more robust than that, regardless of my own lack of belief in it. Where exactly do Mormons cross the line — and would most Christians say Jesus stops accepting their worship and love once they start talking about the UFO?Todd Seaveyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08589187886030112999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-610803938756668468.post-44479392094579874542007-12-19T00:40:00.000-05:002007-12-19T00:40:00.000-05:00“sort of like insisting that a woman who says Alla...“sort of like insisting that a woman who says Allah is the One God and Mohammed the most important prophet is not a Muslim if she doesn’t wear a veil.”<br><br>Sorry, Todd, but that analogy is completely wrong. <br><br>The difference between Mormonism and all forms of Christianity is radically theological, and is not simply a fussy matter of practice and minor differences in belief. Fundamentally, Mormonism is both an implicit and explicit denial of the New Testament — whether one reads the NT as literalist freak or dispassionate historicist — as well as of eighteen centuries of Christian tradition that, despite several differences in ecclesiology, liturgy, and even certain points of theology, still agreed on the basics of Christian doctrine (centered in Jesus’s life, death, and claimed resurrection passed on in oral tradition and then recounted in the Gospels). Mormonism deviates from both strands (text and tradition) so radically as indeed to be a distinct religion. If you want to argue that it’s “really” part of Christianity, then you’ll have to acknowledge that within Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox theology, it would only be claimed as heresy. <br><br>Yes, you outside of Christianity may see both Mormonism and Christianity as having equally silly beliefs, and may conclude that Mormonism is only tossing on a few extra silly beliefs. But saying that therefore Mormonism is Christianity is as foolish as saying Christianity *is* Wicca because they’re both boneheaded. Surely you’re not saying this. But if you’re not saying this, on what possible grounds are you arguing that Mormonism is a branch of Christianity? What would you say to someone who called himself a libertarian, but argued energetically that this meant supporting socialized medicine and expanded welfare, because that’s what, say, John Locke really advocated in texts he wrote that were unknown in his life and were discovered in the 1950s? <br><br>A better analogy: saying that Mormonism is not Christianity is sort of like insisting that a woman who says Allah is the One God and Mohammed the most important prophet is not a Muslim… if she also claims that Muhammed after his death flew on a UFO to Antarctica and battled eight-foot-tall walking sea monkeys. <br><br>(Wait…that’s Kucinich!)<br><br>Or, to look at it another way, your position here is like a good Roman pagan in the year 60 AD–arguing blithely to Jews horrified over the crazy claims of a handful of people claiming an executed carpenter was their messiah, and kicking them out of synagogues for their offensive blasphemy, that they should cool it–and realize that Jews and “Christians” were the same religion, with only minor technical differences.Xinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-610803938756668468.post-3111289678675108362007-12-17T02:33:00.000-05:002007-12-17T02:33:00.000-05:00I like Obama’s website and his platform. He said ...I like Obama’s website and his platform. He said that he cannot coerce people and impose his faith on them. Huckabee wants to impose Christianity on people, which is wrong. That is the wrong way to go about things. We as Christians must pray for people to change. Only God can do that. We can’t legislate morality. As a Chistian I support things like civil rights no matter who you are, net neutrality and digital freedom. I also support helping the needy among us, something the right ignores. Huckabee even apologized about a comment he made about mormons, which shows that he and the rest of the GOP uses Christians for their vote and then enriches the rich.<br><br>>Jesus|FreakJesus|Freakhttp://jesusfreaksblog.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.com